Confederate History and Heritage: Confederate Veterans were "American Veterans"?

(Image courtesy of Facebook)




Ok folks. This is one of those deliberate fabrications of history and dishonest stretches of the truth that we see frequently from the Confederate heritage crowd. These pathetic creatures hide behind the American flag to try and protect the Confederate one. And why is that? Could it be that they have no argument? Are they really that vacuous? Of course they are.

Confederate Veterans were not then, are not today, and can never become "American Veterans" in the implied sense of the Confederate Heritage movement. Let me explain. How does one become an "American Veteran"? By serving the United States military on or off of the battlefield during a time of war. Confederate soldiers fought under the Confederate States of America, an entirely separate nation if you buy into their hollow argument. Even if you don't, they did not serve the United States of America, but they did fight against it. Sure, if the argument you are trying to make is that technically, they were still "American" veterans, because they served the Confederate States of "America", but that is not the argument these pathetic Heritage cowards are making. They are deliberately trying to hide their "Heritage" behind United States law to protect their Confederate monuments and other iconography. This is about the lowest, most cowardly thing I can think of, and anyone who truly respects their dead would not even consider such a repulsive move. Consider these quotes from the Sons of Confederate Veterans' Marc Allen in the aftermath of this week's House of Representatives vote to disallow the Confederate flag to continue to fly in national cemeteries, via WTVA:




"The U.S. House voted this week and decided the Confederate flag shouldn't be flown on a flagpole above any VA cemeteries.
"The problem here is the insult to American military personnel," Marc Allen, MS Division SCV Public Affairs Officer, said.
Marc Allen is public affairs for the Mississippi Division of the Sons of Confederate Veterans. He cited an act of Congress that designated Confederate soldiers as U.S. veteran, giving them the same protections and rights as other service
"Deserve to be recognized as people who answered the call of the country and took up arms to defend their country and do what they thought was right," Allen said."




Allen doesn't come right out and say it, but it is certainly implied. Ah, really Marc? "American military personnel"? Which America? Yes, it's an insult alright, it's insulting for you to give the impression that there is some similarity between the soldiers who fought to protect our nation and the ones you are referring to, who fought against it. The "call of the country"? What country? Do you mean the Confederate one, because you certainly don't mean the United States of America, right?




(Image courtesy of Facebook)







"One claim that's been circulating among Confederate apologists in recent weeks would have us believe that Congress passed a law in 1958 giving Confederate veterans status under law equal to U.S. veterans. It was made into this easy-to-share meme for Facebook and Twitter:
This claim was being made even before the violence in Charleston. The Sons of Confederate Veterans cited the 1958 law to make the case that all Americans should honor Confederate veterans. An undated official history of the Department of Veterans Affairs that covers the period up to 2006 goes so far as to claim that the law "pardoned" Confederate service members. A 1997 article in VFW Magazine also referred to the "congressional pardon" of 1958.
Since the Charleston massacre, the claim has resurfaced on conservative websites. In fact, it has circulated so widely of late that a petition has been launched calling on the Obama administration to take action to repeal the law.
But in fact, the law does not do what Confederate apologists say it does. It certainly does not "pardon" Confederate veterans, nor does not generally give them status "equal to" U.S. veterans."




I highly recommend reading that entire article, it's well worth your time if you haven't seen it before. Trust me, the Heritage crowd knows exactly what they are doing. Why are they purposely trying to tie US law to Confederate soldiers and government? Because they are desperate. They can't defend their own cause, so they are trying to hide behind the American flag. Despicable. We will delve into this further soon, but for now, we will leave you with this quote from blogger Andy Hall from the same Facing South article:



"If you're referring to the 1958 legislation, all it did was make Confederate veterans eligible for the same VA benefits as Union soldiers were. It did not make them U.S. veterans, make any other official change in their status, or extend any particular protections to graves or monuments.
It's really amusing how the same heritage folks who, generally speaking, have nothing but disdain and mockery for the federal government, cling desperately to this particular bit of legislation as an endorsement of their ancestors' integrity. Is your faith in them and their cause genuinely so weak that you have to have the official imprimatur of the U.S. government to justify their cause? Apparently so."



Here's another secret they don't want you to know, in 1958, when the law they are citing supposedly made Confederate Veterans, "American Veterans", there weren't any Confederate veterans left





(Image courtesy of Facebook)






Restoring the honor!





Comments

  1. I'm sure the heritage defenders will be here to deny reality. Confederates were not US veterans. All they have to do is read the actual wording which they have. They just want people to believe their lie.

    Screw them. The wording is clear.

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    1. I'm currently working on speaking directly with experts on this topic. I spoke with one this past week who is a lobbyist for a Veterans group who agreed with me, and totally confirmed one of these "American Vererans" claims was a totally baseless lie. I am going to check off the whole list before I finalize a post so I can put this issue to bed for good. When I'm done with this, I want for the only thing to be said about it, is that they are flat out lying. This is how we win, by using authoritative sources who refute their lies. Hard to argue with experts.

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  2. They lack an understanding of the English language. The same type of people wrote some trash for the GOP platform in Texas which said most Texans were gay. The wording of the laws are quite clear. They just want to push the manure higher to obscure the fact that slavery was the foundation of the Confederacy.

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  3. For me this sort of ties in with the apparent support for the Southern Cross by today's military personnel. It's something I can't understand. I haven't served, so I claim ignorance into how anyone that has served, or is serving, could support the CSA in any manner.

    I've heard some say it's a respect, a sort of brotherhood, that only people that have served would understand. That may be. But, I don't see them waving the flags of any other enemies that have fought against the US.

    Even if you by into the Lost Cause, the fact remains that the CSA fought against the US. Even Lost Causers can't get around that.

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    1. Yes, it's just simple facts. It is totally impossible for them to be "US Veterans" because to be would mean they served the US, they did not. Yet, many of our Confederate dunce cap friends think that they are. Then you have the whole "American" vets crowd, who are deliberately citing United States law as the reason their Confederate States ancestors monuments and flags should be protected. Odd, especially since their ancestors didn't like this country very much, so in that respect, they are actually dishonoring their ancestors.

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    2. Oh, they try to get around it. They try to paint the confederates as paragons of virtue while ignoring all the negative stuff about slavery. They try to portray the confederacy as the continuation of the Revolution while ignoring the facts about the elite class running the confederacy for their benefit. That's why they stick to the state's rights lie, but can't show any state right mentioned by the secessionists that was being violated that did not involve slavery. The Confederates didn't mince any words about why they were seceding. They stated it outright. Also note that confederate veterans really didn't use the CBF like the modern neo-confederates use it. It was the next generation that began to build the monuments to white supremacy.

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    3. It is NOT totally impossible for them to be "US Veterans" because some Confederate veterans DID serve the US, so they were Confederate veterans who WERE US veterans (see: Spanish-American war; Joe Wheeler, etc.)

      However, when I see the claim that acts of Congress often cited "made Confederate vets US vets" I always correct it, if I have the time. How interesting that you, Jacob, who constantly combs Facebook looking for what you consider to be incriminating statements, have never run across my corrections. I have posted them quite a number of times. Or maybe you have, and you are unwilling to post something that contradicts your claims and position.

      My corrections sometimes point out that most veterans legislation doesn't use the terms "US veteran" or "American veteran" even when it is about US vets. Some laws do, but most do not. Most identify the veteran by the war they fought in -- "civil war veteran" "Spanish-American war veteran" "Mexican war veteran," etc.

      Sometimes I also point out that while Confederate veterans are not US veterans (unless they served in the US military after the civil war), Confederate veterans are most certainly AMERICAN veterans for the same reason US veterans are ... by virtue of both nations being "of America."

      The United States of America; the Confederate States of America. Thus, veterans who fought for either country are American veterans.

      The official name of this country is United States of America, but most government documents and many non-governmental ones refer to it as the "United States." The term "of America" is a prepositional phrase that describes "United States." Very likely, this is why the term "American veterans" is rarely in federal legislation. The substance of the country's name is "United States." "Of America" is simply a descriptor. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html

      In my corrections I state that the laws in question funded headstones for Confederate graves and pensions for Confederate widows, and that's all. Some people disagree with me, and say that they see this recognition by Congress as making Confederates, if not U.S veterans, then equivalent to U.S. veterans.

      To me, the closest that the cited legislation comes to making these two veterans groups equivalent is stating that the term "civil war veteran" (which obviously means union veterans) includes "...a person who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War, and the term 'active military or naval service' includes active service in those forces."

      (Continued)

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    4. Public Law 85-425 establishes that the term "veteran" (just "veteran," not "American veteran" or "US veteran") includes a person who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War .

      Finally, my correction points out that when we claim that Congress made Confederates "US vets", we make it appear that our ancestors require the approval of the flippin' U.S. government. They do not, and to me, it is an insult to those men to try to legitimize or validate them with the "approval" of their enemies' government. They need no such validation; they validated themselves by their bravery, endurance, valor and honor. THAT is why their monuments and memorials should be preserved, not because of some dubious "recognition" from the enemy government.

      Here's the most recent example of my correction posted on Facebook:
      https://www.facebook.com/leagueofthesouth/posts/1096528300405044?comment_id=1096651070392767&reply_comment_id=1096772167047324&comment_tracking={%22tn%22%3A%22R2%22}

      Here's what I've said about this subject at Backsass:

      http://mybacksass.blogspot.com/2015/03/apology-owed-will-it-be-given.html

      And more:

      --------
      Commenter at Simpson's flog: I have a bit of a problem calling confederate veterans American veterans.

      My response: I've come to have something of a problem with that, too, but some people see it that way, and I'm not going to tell them they shouldn't. They cite some act of the U.S. Congress recognizing Confederates as American Veterans. Which is all well and good, I guess, but I don't have a lot of respect for the US Congress or most of what it enacts. Confederates were American veterans in the sense that the Confederacy was American, as in The Confederate States of AMERICA. (Please capitalize Confederate, Al. It's a proper noun in this usage).
      http://mybacksass.blogspot.com/2013/08/the-virginia-flaggers-and-pr.html
      --------

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    5. I don't think this post was directed at you personally, your "movement"? Yes, but you? No. That being said, I added your "correction" at the end. That will come in handy. Now, I can tell all of your Heritage buddies to fight it out with you, because you know darned well that a majority of Heritage folks believe the opposite of what you believe on this issue, and that there is a problem for you guys.

      https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6Pw9t2wRDzY/V0HEAe15SrI/AAAAAAAAJbg/jvBo3a8PoUMJSJsEO3blBJjglb7CuPsggCLcB/s1600/Correction.tiff

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    6. By the way, you may have missed it, but I'd previously noted in another post that the only exception to the "US Veteran" rule is, for example, a situation like Bobby Lee, who served the US military prior to his treasonous Confederate service. Anyone who did not serve both governments cannot ever be a "US Veteran". Anyone who served the US government first (and there were many) and then served the Confederate government, in my opinion, should no longer be honored as a US Veteran due to their treason to our country. This is my opinion, you're more than welcome NOT to agree with it. I have mixed feelings about those who tried to redeem themselves by serving the US government following the massive Confederate failure. You can't erase their treason, but at the same time, can they be redeemed? I don't know, I kinda feel like once a traitor, always a traitor. Don't even get me started on what should have happened following the end of the war. Lets just say that our ancestors got off with a slap on the wrist. The sheer enormity of the size of the former Confederacy likely played a big part in the decision to let bygones be bygones. How in the heck do you punish half a country?

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    7. Of course, any rebel that served the US would be a US veteran. But, that law did not establish anything. It clearly says "(e) For the purpose of this section, and section 433, the term 'veteran' includes a person who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War, and the term 'active, military or naval service' includes active service in such forces."

      It's being very specific. "For the purposes of this section". In other words, no where outside of this section does this apply.

      And to say CSA vets are most definitely American vets? Come on. That is weak semantic word play. Mexico and Canada are part of North America. Are we to consider them American vets? Obviously when anyone says "American vets", they are talking about US vets.

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    8. sledridge, please. I SAID that. Clearly. "... the laws in question funded headstones for Confederate graves and pensions for Confederate widows, and that's all."

      Did you miss that, hon?

      First, the names are not the United States of North America, nor the Confederate States of North America.

      Also, it is not weak semantic word play. The names of nations to the north and south of us are NOT the Canadian Provinces of America, nor the Mexican States of America. AMERICA is not in their names at all.

      AMERICA is in the names of BOTH NATIONS under discussion. If US vets are "American vets" because America is part of their nation's name, then CS vets are "American vets" because America was part of THEIR nation's name.

      I realize this may be to logical and common-sensical for some people to follow.

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    9. Jacob, the number of people in Confederate heritage that make this claim about "US vets" and legislation and such, are a minutely small percentage of those in the movement.

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    10. "Public Law 85-425 establishes that the term "veteran" (just "veteran," not "American veteran" or "US veteran")" - Call me pedantic, but the way the heritage crowd like to take liberties with things like facts and history, I just wanted to make clear it established the term only for that section.

      After all you also said,"I always correct it, if I have the time." and "but some people see it that way, and I'm not going to tell them they shouldn't." So, sometimes you say you do. But, other times you never do. Again, I know I'm pedantic. But, clarity doesn't seem to be your bag.

      Who knows, in the future, some neo-Confederate, out on the hunt for information that coincides with their own preconceptions, may stumble across this and construe it to their intents.

      Trying to latch onto the idea of "American" is semantic wordplay attempt to create legitimacy in the modern era.

      And if you think the amount of heritage folk that make this claim is miniscule... you gotta get out more.

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    11. I always correct it if I have time. THEN, AFTER I correct it, if somebody disagrees, I don't tell them they shouldn't disagree.

      To say that people in both countries were Americans because "of America" was part of both names is not "semantic wordplay." Why would one group of people who are "of America" be Americans but another group who are "of America" are not Americans? It's not a matter of "legitimacy." It's a matter of logic.

      Okay, (1) how many heritage folks are there and (2) how many of them claim Confederate vets were made US vets by Congress?

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    12. 1) A bunch.

      2) A whole lot of the bunch.

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    13. Numbers, not phrases. And I asked sledridge, not you. But thanks for proving you don't know....

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    14. (1) how many heritage folks are there - Too many. Whatever the number really is... that many too many.

      (2) how many of them claim Confederate vets were made US vets by Congress? - Too many. Whatever the number really is... that many too many.

      For as little as I have to do with heritage folk, from the frequency I see it repeated on social media, I'd extrapolate that out to be roughly equivalent to all the heritage and culture the "white southerners" claim they are losing.

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    15. "Numbers, not phrases. And I asked sledridge, not you. But thanks for proving you don't know...."

      I know that it happens with enough frequency that in my opinion (which is definitely right, because I said so) it is a majority, not a minority. I know that I can go to just about any Heritage page, on any given day and see the same bs lies repeated. I know that I have an entire folder of screenshots of Heritage folks repeating the same lie. It is because, just like the "Conservative echo chamber" there is also a "Confederate echo chamber".

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    16. Oh look, there it goes again, not happening very often...

      https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206441123086537&set=p.10206441123086537&type=3&theater

      (On the Flaggers page to boot!)

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  4. Any Confederate who served in the US military after the Civil War would be entitled to have a US Flag flown at his grave site if it is in a VA cemetery. He would not be entitled to a Confederate flag unless he was interred in a private cemetery or one that was created specifically for deceased Confederates.

    The Confederate flag has no business being flown over the very men who sacrificed their lives and health to defeat the Confederacy. It has no business being flown most of the time except for historical reenactments or over graves of Confederates. It should be displayed in museums in exhibits on the Confederacy. Out in public flying for other situations? No. It serves no purpose other than to demonstrate ignorance and racism.

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    1. Dimmy Jick, the broken record....

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    2. Says the Queen of Record Skipping and Lying.

      What's the matter, Connie? Still stuck on peddling the Lost Cause lie?

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    3. Why, no, Dimmy. I just think it's remarkable how you say the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over ....

      I sometimes wonder if you're not some kind of software bot with very narrow programming.....

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    4. I only rebut your lies which you keep repeating like the parrot you are. You keep lying and I will keep proving you wrong.

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    5. But you don't prove me wrong. You just echo yourself... over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over ....

      Delete

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